Top 30 products we import from China.

It's actually pretty simple, put fair employee treatment in all trade agreements. We were demonstrating demanding employee benefits and a living wage before they signed the NAFTA treaty.

I guess big business thought, "Gee, if we have to pay a living wage, and benefits, what's the point?" So we were ignored.

I try to buy all food and meat from domestic sources. It is easy in the summer with farmer's markets, but a little tougher in the winter.

I hate to sound pessimistic but I don't see this one changing in my lifetime. Those jobs aren't coming back. Like with all things in nature it's easier to adapt the environment than to change it. And so we must.

"An exchange from Reddit"

Depends how rapidly several converging forces occur.

1.

Will US consumption of cheap imported goods reach a saturation point once everyone has a few of each type of trinket?
2.

Will the US economy falter to the point where we won't be able to keep consuming if we want to?
3.

Will China pollute itself out of production?
4.

What role will increased energy prices have on cheap imports and their production? (How much of that list depends on cheap plastic and cheap oil?)
5.

Is the Chinese economy now dependent upon selling us stuff that we essentially don't need? (Looking at that list, I'm struck by how little of it could be described as a necessity.)

"Continued exchange from Reddit"

Good points. It seems though that these points assume that China's status stays the same. That is their primary function is producing cheap goods. What if China becomes proficient at innovation or higher value products?

"Continued exchange from Reddit"

To some degree they are already doing that. A decade ago, China's capability to produce anything even as relatively uncomplex as simple optics was a pitiful joke. Made in China was a death stamp for optics, medical equipment and tractors. Currently, nearly all the big players in the sport, medical and research optics fields have partnerships with plants in China, often making equipment that's only a B or B- notch below the top-end European and Japanese products, but at a fraction of the cost. And these days, finding new tractors or generators that aren't made in part or in whole in China is getting tougher.

But, what China is really good at right now is making increasingly better copies of existing products or ideas. At least at present, they seem to be lagging in innovation. Now, that's not really surprising, given how far and how fast they've come. Going from oxcarts to rockets and consumerism in a generation is one heck of steep learning curve. So, perhaps the innovation that the Chinese are historically legendary will once again rise to the surface. (Though having a couple generations of innovators and intellectuals silenced or killed can't be helping in that regard.)

The real question is how long the resources and cheap energy hold out as contrasted to the Earth's ability to deal with pollution. At what point does consumerism itself implode due to finite resources, finite pollution tolerances, finite demand, and bad economic models on all sides of the equation?

1. I don't see the US market for crap drying up any time soon. People want to pretend they are "middle class" and have a lot of stuff. Even now, they can't afford good stuff, so they buy crap at Target, and look down on the folks who shop at WalMart, who look down on the poor hayseeds shopping at K Mart.

2. This is a much more interesting question. One of the key factors fueling the great depression was the inability of the common man to pay his interest, AND continue to spend. He stopped spending, the companies stopped producing and fired all the common men. What a lot of people refuse to recognize is that you can't recover with supply side economics. If the demand goes away so does the economy. I doubt that it can be stopped now.

(continued)

3. No. There is no such thing as an environmentalist, when you are eating rat.

4. Energy prices are what they are, for everyone. They won't change the relative competitive advantage China has. Energy prices aren't high. When every worker in China, India, and Malaysia have 1.7 cars we'll remember the days of $6.00 gasoline fondly.

5. No. China is doing what we should be doing. They are working, balls out, on a hydrogen fuel cell car, electric cars, and development of renewable energy sources. You think they have a lot of power now? Wait till they start selling their efficient little cars here.

(continued)

Yeah, the Chinese probably won't be great innovators; vegetarians seldom are. (Yeah, yeah, I know fat people are lazy, and vegetarians are dullards; big trouble. Tough noogies; I just call em as I see em.)

But they don't have to invent stuff; we, the Germans, the Swedes, the Danes, the Austrians, and all us other carnivores will invent stuff. If they can produce it for me at a lower cost, more power to them. Inventing stuff is fun, building stuff sucks donkey.

Reddi is right, the question is, indeed, "At what point does consumerism itself implode due to finite resources, . . . finite demand, and bad economic models on all sides of the equation?"

Pollution isn't a problem; we are creative and who cares if a few worker bees die from breathing crap. And we can't hurt the earth long term, all we can do is kill ourselves. 50,000 years later, you'll never know we were here. Big Mama is 4.5 billion years old, we've been here for 0.00022% of that time; sure, we're going to screw it up.

People will just run out of money and it will all collapse, quietly.

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.

- T.S. Eliot

How about
#31. Lead ?